Life After Leaven w/ Tamice Spencer-Helms
As a follow up to her debut book, Faith Unleavened: The Wilderness Between Trayvon Martin & George Floyd, Tamice Spencer-Helms is joined by folx from all walks of life and society to talk about picking up the shattered fragments of a faith we used to know. Life After Leaven is a podcast for those seeking to heal from the damage caused by toxic Christianity and rebuild something new and life giving in its place.
Life After Leaven w/ Tamice Spencer-Helms
Challenging Performative Allyship: A Journey to Queerness and Self-Acceptance w/ Spencer Helms
Let's take a journey together, diving deep into the complexities of our interracial, queer, and gentle parenting relationship. We're peeling back the layers on difficult conversations and experiences that arise from navigating race, gender, privilege, and parenting, all while managing chronic pain and neurodivergence.
Are you a true ally, or do you sidestep the necessary conversations? We're challenging the concept of allyship within the queer community, offering insights from our personal experiences. We pose the question: what does real allyship look like? We're not just talking – we're encouraging active participation in the fight for a more inclusive, equal society. Let's take a stand against performative allyship and work towards genuine change.
We're celebrating the beauty of queer identities and advocating for acceptance and love in the face of differences. Our guest, Spencer Helms, joins us to share their journey towards self-love and acceptance of their non-binary identity. They share the joys and challenges of their interracial relationship, their struggle with societal expectations, and their peace with God. And we're not stopping there - we're taking on children's literature, pushing for representation of diverse families and identities, because every child deserves to see their story told. Join us in our fight for acceptance, representation, and above all, love. [END SHOW NOTES]
Life After Leaven is sponsored by Sub:Culture Incorporated, a 501c3 committed to eradicating cultural, social, spiritual, financial, and academic barriers for Black College Students. If you are interested in giving a tax deductible donation toward our work with black college students, you can do that here. Thank you for helping us ensure temporary roadblocks don't become permanent dead ends for students with marginalized identities. You can follow us on Instagram: @subc_incorporated, Facebook: facebook.com/subcultureinco, and Twitter: @subcultureinco1.
Our episodes are written and produced by Tamice Namae Speaks LLC.
Don’t miss out on what Tamice has planned next! Follow her on Instagram and Twitter, or subscribe to her Patreon page.
From the other side of toxic Christianity. I found myself faced with one question, now, what this podcast is about that question? We have conversations with folks who are asking themselves the same things. We're picking up the pieces of a fractured and fragmented faith. We're finding treasure in what the church called trash, beauty and solidarity in people and places we were told to fear, reject and dismiss. I'm Tamise Spencer Helms, and this is Life After Levelling. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Life After Levelling. I'm your host, tamise Spencer Helms, and I'm joined by the one and the only Alison Dietrich Spencer Helms. Love of my Life, my A-Spoon Coon, my Sweet, sweet well, I've never tried sweetheart my, yeah, I don't know what are non-gendered terms of endearment?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, my bae, bae, we have a special episode. Was it come out once a month? Every other week, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:You forgot to do that part. Bae, you forgot to do that part. I don't do that. Bae, bae, bae, bae Cool.
Speaker 2:Come on, bae, all right, so, moving on, we have a special and we talk about our life and I think today I'm kind of talking about what it means to be an ally, and I'm going to be focusing on me in the sense of what I can speak to. I can't speak to your experience, I can't speak to being a person of color, a black person, and I can speak to my marginalization is what I'm trying to say but we have had lots of conversation about what it means to be in an interracial marriage, for both non-binary in different ways.
Speaker 2:And we're parenting, we're gentle parenting, we're doing attachment parenting. We have different preferences. We have a very rowdy dog who is like Bae, can you let us what is that?
Speaker 1:is that my charger?
Speaker 2:Yep Life. Life is always hopping over here.
Speaker 1:That's all I can say, and we're talking about it, but I mean more than that, like I think, what I think we've realized in our conversations about spirituality, about growing up or at least being most of our adult lives Christian. We have those intersections. We've got your chronic pain, your neurodivergence. We've got black conversations, white conversations, conversations about oppression, olympics and what does that mean? Transphobia and ableism and all of these ways that these conversations are happening in the midst of our relationship. What does it mean to still have to interact with my abuser Because my kid's father is still alive? Those are types of things that we navigate, that we work through and I think I don't know sometimes, based on the last episode that we did, I think people are interested in the ways that we're kind of learning and walking some of this out. So we're starting a show that is only for patrons, right, and it's once a month. You said, bae, yeah, once I don't remember, it happens.
Speaker 1:Let's just say it'll be a week's worth it happens on a semi-regular basis and we're just going to talk about life, about what's coming up, maybe even stuff that we thought about that week, because, shout out to Crystal, we even fight a lot better. Couple's therapy is great.
Speaker 2:Couple's therapist. They're not married yet. You want to get married. What was it they used to like churches do?
Speaker 1:I'm not saying it's bad being a marital counseling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's like you are a counselor, you're an counselor and then the post was super helpful. Yeah, and talking about especially, we have very honest conversations. I hate when people are like, well, I'm married to a black person, as if that gives them an excuse because I'm like me too. Guess what? I hate being confronted with my whiteness every day.
Speaker 1:You actually get confronted with it more right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to do deeper work, and that doesn't mean I can talk any better, I just know how deep it goes. And actually I don't know how deep it goes because sometimes I'm like god damn it, there comes again.
Speaker 1:But on the flip side of that, my experience has been I've never been in love.
Speaker 1:In love and committed fully and raising a kid and married to a white person.
Speaker 1:They've always been a group of people who were always a few steps removed from my personal life and from intimacy in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:So dealing with whiteness, dealing with whiteness, was always very external. It wasn't like I'm having to grapple with the ways that I dismiss areas that you're marginalized, where you experience marginalization, because I'm so trying to come after white Jesus and whiteness that I haven't realized that there are ways that whiteness has shown up in me being really misogynistic at times, or ableist or transphobic and all of those things. So those are the conversations that we get in about how do we navigate and become the best version of ourselves in the midst of a family and a relationship with so many intersections? I mean, if we go to Target, it's hard to know whether we're getting looked at because we're queer or interracial, or we're both masks or we're a gentle parent, like I mean it's hard to know like which marginalization are we being judged on or rejected by today. And so I think that those conversations are a lot of fun to have, and so we're just gonna have them on air for patrons.
Speaker 2:We just have these really deep conversations about things and I think we're just gonna. We decided one day like, hey, let's stick a mic in our faces and see what happens and but kind of leading from that talking about with this season it's been really great and I've loved there's been moments where people say things that you could kind of take away like thank you, okay, you're welcome If you're gonna be an ally, like seeing the split that bisexual people can have of what that looks like to not be one or the other and fully accepted, or some great things from E about how same for me you socially conditioned as a white woman growing up, so you still have that in you and the conversations we have and kind of applies to this is like it's not an oppression Olympics. I'm not trying to be like my button's bigger than yours. If I can ignore it or if I give you enough of a sob story, I can oppress you.
Speaker 2:And I was not in a lot of queer spaces until we were dating, partially because I came out during the beginning of the pandemic, but you pretty quickly helped me see like they're very white spaces and they're not super open. So I'm not open but they do think about like okay, yes, we are queer, but you are not black and queer. You are queer, we're not trans and queer, and I've experienced that, I've had to learn just because you're going to a queer event does not mean you won't get misgendered and all of those fun stuff. Just don't assume. So I think, like I've been thinking about this a lot, because I'm a fan, I just as soon as it comes out, I'm listening to it on the way they're from work and because I have like a decent commute, I'll then kind of think in my head you said you wanted to do an episode with me and I kept. Allyship came coming up.
Speaker 1:So I have a lot. What's your favorite episode? First, we favor two episodes, three episodes a season.
Speaker 2:I don't know and I don't think that's fair to anyone. They were all great, so let's just leave it there, but I think that's going back. Like you can just stop me, my little neurodivergent brain that goes on tangent. Someone wants to finish everything. I know we all have a set amount of time. Excuse me, I've had a cold, I'm just getting over it and anyway. So, allyship, the things I was thinking of and I'm just gonna kind of go off of them right now, kind of my teacher slash group therapy person, like I'm just gonna, I'm just going to talk, I don't know how to say it, hey buddy, I'm Sapio, so we might hit pause.
Speaker 2:And I probably shouldn't say what I always say on air about my I love that you can say it on the other show, the Patreon show.
Speaker 2:Yep, oh, anyway. So, yes, allyship. I think about 10 years ago I heard someone speak on this I'm such a random like how I heard them and but one thing stuck with me was that you should never call yourself an ally, but other people should assign that to you. Because what does Allyship really mean? Like? Is there an actual definition, quantification, and so when people say ally, a lot of times I feel like it's being given as an excuse or an out. You know well, I'm an ally. Okay, cool, you're an ally, but you're not being one right now and you've just kind of dismissed the conversation and I really wish I could remember her name. I heard someone else recently say when you call yourself or when you're being an ally, you're still holding the power. You still have all the power. You need to be, you need to have deference, you know. So you need to give up that power to the person.
Speaker 2:And it's kind of this I'm gonna call my way down, call your way up Again. I don't want to take credit for that. I heard somebody else say that, but I've been thinking about how it really. What would it mean to say I will, I'm willing to go as as low as society has put you. That is lower than I should be, you know, because you might be oppressed too for supporting people in order for us both to rise up. Because what if everybody? That's the only way the system's gonna change. I'm gonna use my money. As a white person, I have a lot of social capital that the black community does not have. So how am I gonna use my social capital? Am I going to give to something like I don't know, subculture to help students get subculture Subculture? Pippa, pippa, pippa, pippa. But it really is that like what am I gonna do? Am I going to be willing even to put my life in danger if I need be?
Speaker 2:And I think about you, know, if you have any connection to Christianity or the belief that, like Jesus is God that they sent their child here to earth to make it a better place. I don't agree with the whole synatomic thing, but whatever way you look at it. Jesus' death had an impact. He was willing to go to death to make the world a better place. Yeah, that's fair. So God does this. Why am I not doing this too? I think you can even have some theological reasons for it. But so, starting there, and like I said, what is an ally? How can you call yourself that? What does it require? And I think it's less about can I call myself that or am I living a life worthy of being seen as doing the work? And, like I said, that work is deep, because even if I get out of the burning building, there's still smoke in my lungs.
Speaker 1:Okay, babe.
Speaker 2:Bars and I wanna speak directly, I think, to those like. We've heard a lot of experiences of people who are actually queer or trans, and I wanna speak for our community in the sense of like how, if you're listening to this and you're not part of the community, how you can be an ally, because I think for queer people, particularly those who come from like, spiritual Christian background, that insular, you know, I didn't even know being gay wasn't a choice. I was part of what. I could suppress it. I was told it was a choice, so it was all on me and when I came out, I lost a lot. I lost a lot of connections and people.
Speaker 2:You too, you lost money over this. You know you lost so much, I lost so much, and I think that is a common experience and I have talked to a lot of people who walk the same road as I do and I think, for maybe, if your marginalization is more of a family type thing, like being a person of color, your family experience is the same thing and you have to navigate it from birth or from a young age and so you find your connections. Yeah Well, I'm a 30 and I've had not 30 now, but when I came out I was 30. And what do I do? I've got a. I don't have support. Thankfully I had a few and we've become family and it's incredible, but I lost my family. I lost half my family. Thank God I have a big family and a few of them stayed, but people have come to believe me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, buddy, just losing half of them. Joke is, you still got kind of like a normal, regular size. You got a lot of siblings.
Speaker 2:I do Not as many not as smaller compared to the homeschool movement. Let's just be family.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying You're shiny, happy people with Jason. Let's keep it real.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, very much. So we. I am now to the point where I don't believe that there's one side or the other. Right, there's been side A, side B, all these other. No, I am a human. You do not get to decide my humanity, Cause I think allies like society has suppressed people so much that people think they're an ally for seeing you, saying you should have basic human rights, or seeing you as human, and that's not. That is the bare minimum. So I'm like no, the bare minimum now is that I get to be myself. The bare minimum is that you don't get to tell me I'm wrong. I'm not wrong. You don't get to tell me that, but I will respect the fact that your religion says I cannot. We're not even your religion cause, I'm sorry, Christianity does not say that. Your tradition says I cannot be myself why Jesus?
Speaker 2:Yes, fake Jesus cannot be myself, but I and I know so many people that are willing to walk that line. It's not a support. I'm willing to walk the line where we agree to disagree and what's amazing is the person putting me down won't do that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I have spent so many days I think it was Kyle who said previously in his episode like thinking about this daily. I think about this daily, I grieve daily. I watch nieces and nephews be born that I will probably never get to meet. I watch family events happen that I can't go to, friendships lost, things that don't happen, and it breaks my heart when I have sometimes boundaries because I will protect my family first, but I don't care. I just want you to agree, to disagree and to love each other. I am willing to love you as you are. Why can't you love me as I am? Like I'm willing to love you.
Speaker 2:If you wanna be an asshole, why can't you love me? Because I'm doing my best life and I'm not calling any one particular person an asshole, but we definitely know how people can act towards queer people and they can be assholes, and indeed so I think for those who want to be affirming and want to be allies, I think you need to know we set such a slow bar for what it means to be affirming. If you're like, oh yeah, gay marriage, whatever, but then when we go and we have families and our children go to school with yours, my child can't learn about it now. And I mean some are and they're like oh yeah, my whatever. But I think there's an amount of like, acceptance is how we see it instead of celebration. And I get, people can go too far the other way, but can they? Because, I'm sorry, I almost lost my life over this. So I'm gonna celebrate me because maybe me celebrating me is gonna allow a kid to live. I'm gonna be my full self because I see too many of me's in the acute psych ward just having tried to end their life Like we deserve to live, and I'm gonna live out loud and proud Hope one day Harlem doesn't have to come out and can just bring home whoever she wants or can just use whatever pronouns she wants.
Speaker 2:Sure, do I think that we're all technically non binary and we just can use whatever pronouns? Yeah, do I think that there's a little too many labels? Yes, but you know what? If it makes you happy and it helps you find community, go for it. I will celebrate you. If you wanna be a cis white woman, go for it. Well, you can't really choose your whiteness, but don't be a white woman, be whatever national Norwegian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will celebrate you. That is who you are Like. Just think on the flip side. Think about I think it was you and me on the episode having that conversation about being your true self. But you should be excited when someone comes out to you, celebrate them and I just one of the most helpful things someone said to me was you don't have to let someone process their grief about you. With you and I've had people I've only known you, as are you here Something happened. Yeah, okay, I've only known you as this gender, this name, this whatever.
Speaker 1:And I know we've had that conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had that of a little bit of a grieving process. But yeah, you were like whatever, whatever is your true self. I want to meet that. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know you were like partie. How do I吗? You know, how do I marry before?
Speaker 1:My mother and son are my best friends, their revving, and family members too. So, yeah, that, so it's exactly what happened. You know, then she? I mean you know like you can go to their legitopity, you can make your guy talk, make them love you, um, but I mean we, we love you more than you. We were like a ghost.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or even when you were like, hey, I think that I'm non-binary, I want to live into my masculinity, I was excited because you get to be you. And when you say, how do I look in this? And you wore a men's button down and more masculine shorts and a backwards hat, like you're wearing now, honestly, the look on your face made you more attractive. I mean, you look hot, I'm just going to say. But I think it's the way to bury yourself and you feel and I used to hate clothes and now I'm like, ooh, what am I going to wear today? Because I'm wearing my true self and I used to put myself down all the time. I'd get upset and dysregulated and I would say my dead name is a bitch. And then, when I changed my name, I got upset and my dead name came out of my mouth and it made me like I hated myself. I love me. Now I'm still learning to love me.
Speaker 2:I've always been me. You know way back, I knew who I was and it got like systematically pulled out of me. So you need to know, as a straight or a cis person, that you also need to celebrate us and who we are and we need this round. It's not a and it's not like oh, I want my kid to be gay Because you're still not supporting the. Let them be who they are, yeah, and you need to understand that. But if it's not hurting anyone, let them be their identity Right, but to be themselves.
Speaker 1:And figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too I was thinking about this from a parenting perspective too, because Harlem, in a way, is connected to the queer community.
Speaker 2:Yeah sure Auntie's an uncle she has who are queer and her parents are queer and it's fun to see her perspective and like two adults can be married, it doesn't matter. But then the struggle we have to see representation in books. We already have a struggle. A lot of books. If they have a black character, it's some side and you know, ok, cool, we drew a black character. It's a white person Writing a book and it's like oh, you just made a stereotype.
Speaker 2:And it's the same with most of the queer books out there, for kids are like let's celebrate the different families, not just a normal everyday life or fun book which shout out to both the book and the TV show Not Quite Narwhal, because they're so brilliant, because it is written by a non-binary person, turn into a TV show which is about a narwhal quote unquote who finds out they're actually. They call themselves a C unicorn because they've looked different from their family, but they don't identify as the unicorn, they don't identify as narwhal, they're in between. So they're a C unicorn and they're just themselves and the way their family is like oh, we always knew something was different. Now, we love knowing there's a name. Was just this mind blowing like and what's beautiful? What is beautiful about supporting everyone and doing whatever is best for the least of these?
Speaker 1:And then when?
Speaker 2:I think of these we have created the least of these. It's the whole of society benefits. Come on, babe, now any outcast kid is going to connect with the show. I mean, let's just take disabilities for a hot second. When things are created to be more accessible, everybody benefits. The sidewalks coming down so that wheelchairs can get on, now we can put it. Strollers can go up and down easily, now scooters can.
Speaker 2:You've got the bumps on there to indicate that the road's coming soon. That's a safety thing. There was this area where they had put like on the sidewalk towards the side it's outside of Gallaudet University. They had put a different material, so it was bumpy, and the idea was, if two people are looking at each other and signing, they're signing and they feel that they're not going to go like fall into the road. It's more safe. But it's safer for everyone because people get distracted and you know everything that comes up. It's more. Things are created and then everyone goes.
Speaker 2:Hey, I like that too. I mean, think about a toilet. Who wants to sit on a tiny ass toilet. A lot of new homes just come with ADA toilets because they're so much more comfortable. Sorry, I went on a tangent there too, but I'm glad you're in just society, reflected society, and we're not just special books here. And I was thinking too. I had this interaction recently with a mom who was like so, so proud of herself for how liberal she was and is a white family and is telling us what to say.
Speaker 1:Are they of the Caucasian persuasion by chance?
Speaker 2:And it's just like, yeah, well, well, my kids know about this and my kids know about that and they know to basically hate America and all of these things. In my mind it was like, cool, but you're still indoctrinating them. Because, guess what? I'm trying to teach my child that we live on indigenous lands and we're having those conversations. She's still too young to make the match with, like she thinks, the Pledge of Allegiance is the best thing ever, like the newest DJ Khaled song.
Speaker 2:We have to stop and we have to say it, and it drives me nuts and she won't.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh cringy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I'm not going to indoctrinate my child. I'm hoping she can learn.
Speaker 1:She puts it together.
Speaker 2:We live on on indigenous land. We, the government, has done a lot of this stuff and then she can make her own decisions. But there was so much cockiness and what was said and like they get everyone's pronouns right and I know I'm kind of probably mocking the person I didn't, I'm not trying to and like they had a genuine heart in a sense.
Speaker 1:They always do.
Speaker 2:Two things that came out of. It was then there was an interaction with you and another person of color and that person of color was complimenting you and saying I see you and I hear you, and I was kind of standing back so I was waiting for you, and this person had come up, butted themselves into the conversation and then took it over to say how they had not only done exactly what you did but done it more. And then we're kind of persecuted for it because someone told them to stop. And I just saw the conversation. I saw this moment between two people of color saying I see you and it died. I don't know if you remember that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, refresh my memory, what city?
Speaker 2:where we in. They're most recent trip.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, and it was interesting because I had previously this person had been talking to them and I was like it just doesn't sit right what you're saying. And I was like, oh, and this is where the problem with ally ship comes. This person is telling me what a great ally they are, how their kids defend it and you know what. That's great that your kids are out there they're defending and they're going to be friends with my daughter. That is cool, but what you are doing is still being Can you drop it yeah.
Speaker 2:Like come on, man yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think there's this amount where you use that ally ship to keep the power.
Speaker 2:I don't want to give up that. I'm a white woman, so I'm going to be a great white woman. Who's who's going to be? You know, your your caretaker here, and I've also seen people who genuinely teach their children, but they don't teach them. This amount of like humility of you know, I think that's one thing I always have to keep is this humility. If it could be me, I could be. That white person I identify as German doesn't make me now white still so in society.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I have to keep this humility of like I can make those mistakes I have done that before.
Speaker 2:I have been in times where it even seems like it, like one time I was like I'm going to be a white woman, I'm going to be a white woman, I'm going to be a white woman, I'm going to be a white woman. It even seems like it, like one time I got nervous and you know, one of your meetings and I took over. It was horrible. Afterwards I was like I just associated and just started talking. Yes, Whiteness was still involved, and so what was interesting about that Cause, I think then what can happen is to raise these kids To think that they they're not any part of the problem. You need to reach your kids to see that they are part of the problem, and then they end up finding you know, making the same, they're making the same mistakes because you know like no, you're teaching them their stuff like Beacon.
Speaker 1:do not eat the microphone.
Speaker 2:Teach them. They're still white and anyway. So I was gonna say the second thing that happened was the next day, Harlem, who has a transparent, has two non binary parents, right.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Harlem, we got to get it from the bus in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Right. And then when we got to the bus she goes up to our trans friend and tells her she sounds like a man. And then that friend handles it beautifully and it was like that that hurts, that's not true. Came up and said is trying to justify herself and then went and had a pity party because this friend is not, was like I don't really want to be around you right now. Basically, it was like I heard it and it was like this is the most wonderful thing.
Speaker 2:Like that person handled it beautifully and my first reaction is like my child, like oh my God, how I was. But I was like you know she's still curious and she's wondering and we had to have a conversation later. Well, why don't my friends have a daddy? Not all people have daddy's.
Speaker 2:Like you have literally said somebody's two moms who was like not, it was just like mom and a friend and you assume. But you still live in a world where you're socially conditioned for this and you know we didn't handle. I was like I'm going to handle this in a way where it's going to be a learning moment and seven embarrassment and knowing like my child is going to be socially exposed and society is going to hold greater amounts until she's she's made these mistakes and learning compassion comes from like a different place than than pride and power, and so that also made me then think of that person was like here you are a straight cis person saying that your kids are amazing allies. Well, guess what? I don't think you know how amazing they are, how, like what you were doing awesome on teaching them acceptance cool, but keep an amount of humility, because a child with transparent Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:It's still influenced by the society.
Speaker 1:I mean definitely. They carry that white evangelical audacity right over into progressivism and liberalism. It's like yo. What we're going for here is holding space for people's humanity, humility, making more room at the table. We're not going for we become the new us in them. You're not just switching sides and now the then becomes the us. That's not what we're doing. We're trying to erase the binary, not reinforce it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know that we have to finish up. But one thing I was going to say about that too is, if you are a straight family, if you're a cis family, expose your kids. They do these tests of white dolls and black dolls in preference. I'm sure if they did those tests there would be a preference for a mommy and a daddy when you play. That's what kids do and I think that just purposely by those books, have those conversations.
Speaker 2:Because also recently I met up with an old friend and her kids have exposure, some of their parents sibling, I don't know how to. It's technically it's piblings because and uncle don't always fit, but they are exposed to. Some of them are queer and trans and all of that. But there was no conversation about me Are you a boy, are you a girl? And the boy was wearing pink and the girl was wearing at one point more mask. Both of them just wore what they wanted or they do.
Speaker 2:That was the first time we met. I was thinking like wow, they accept. It wasn't like, well, who are you to, harlem and all this stuff. It just was and I think that would rather you be. The kids don't need to know everything, they just need to be like cool and I don't mind them asking questions if they're like, okay, cool and they move on. And I think that's where your goal should be is like these are humans. Help me understand. Oh, you're not binary. Oh, you go by, they them pronouns. Oh, she calls you know, be cool. And then they run off and play, you know? Just let your kids see me as human and know that society doesn't as they get older.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're increasing their reference points for what it means to be human, and I think that's what the goal of it is for show. All right, before we go get on the bus or go get her off the bus, what are some takeaways from this season that you want people to take away, since you listen to them all?
Speaker 2:This is a lot I've seen about this with atlaship to. There are a lot of intersections. You might think, oh great, I'm not really good at this one. Yet when you are is you're growing. The goal is imperfectionism is growing because, you know, I can get overwhelmed with like, oh, I need to be more disabled, friendly kind of. You know, oh, this and that, and you know, does everything I have have captions and you know, am I being a good white person? Kind of like no, no, no, I'm not trying to be a good white person, I'm trying to grow and stay humble. So, grow and stay humble. I love what you said about you know, own your whiteness.
Speaker 1:You were socially conditioned.
Speaker 2:You can't change your past. You can just change who you are. I heard someone else say it's not about your reaction, it's not about your initial reaction, it's about what you do after that, and I think that just make some friends, be a friend and let go of wanting to be seen as good. Just be yourself. Just be good.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be seen as good. Just be good yeah.
Speaker 2:And lastly, because listening and hearing you say you know there might be people sneak listening. I think that people need to know there can come a point where you don't have to justify yourself. You can just be. I spent so long reading every possible book that I could to justify myself using the Bible, when I can justify myself because God made me and I am who I am. So, be yourself. That would be my word to live by.
Speaker 1:Hey, I love you so much. I lucked out we got to get the baby off the bus. But for those who want to kind of follow us in our journey of love and marriage and the wildness that is the Spencer Helms home, join us on what do we call it? Non-binary love in black and white, In the right.
Speaker 2:Non-binary love in black and white. See, we're so put together.
Speaker 1:We are. We got it all together and our house was clean yesterday and now here we are, if you're watching. Thank you everybody. This has been a really, really, really great season. Excited to have everybody back next season. We are going to announce that in a couple of weeks, but for now, thanks for listening to Life After Levin. Thank you for listening the picture. Money in your heart is donate to Subquatcher Inc and clear the path for black students today.