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Life After Leaven w/ Tamice Spencer-Helms
As a follow up to her debut book, Faith Unleavened: The Wilderness Between Trayvon Martin & George Floyd, Tamice Spencer-Helms is joined by folx from all walks of life and society to talk about picking up the shattered fragments of a faith we used to know. Life After Leaven is a podcast for those seeking to heal from the damage caused by toxic Christianity and rebuild something new and life giving in its place.
Life After Leaven w/ Tamice Spencer-Helms
The Goldsboro Family: A History of Perseverance
Have you ever wondered how your family's past shapes your present? In this heartfelt episode of Life After 11, we promise an intimate journey through time as we sit down with my great uncle, Coleman Goldsboro. Uncle Demi opens up about our family's roots, dating back to the early European settlements in Talbot County, Maryland, in the 1630s. He shares touching stories about his parents, George and Ida Goldsboro, their life in Pocomoke, Maryland, and the poignant memories of siblings who passed away too soon. This chapter is not just about history; it's a tapestry of personal anecdotes that give you a deeper understanding of our family's legacy.
We then turn our focus to the life and legacy of my mother, exploring her passion for education, community involvement, and her courageous role in the civil rights movement. From desegregating local establishments to participating in Freedom Rides, her inspiring actions are a testament to her character and values. The episode also uncovers the rich heritage of Mo, tracing his lineage from Uganda to New Orleans and his connection to Native American ancestry. As we celebrate the resilience and diverse backgrounds of our family, you'll gain a newfound appreciation for the experiences that have shaped us. Don't miss out on this compelling exploration of identity, heritage, and legacy.
Life After Leaven is sponsored by Sub:Culture Incorporated, a 501c3 committed to eradicating cultural, social, spiritual, financial, and academic barriers for Black College Students. If you are interested in giving a tax deductible donation toward our work with black college students, you can do that here. Thank you for helping us ensure temporary roadblocks don't become permanent dead ends for students with marginalized identities. You can follow us on Instagram: @subc_incorporated, Facebook: facebook.com/subcultureinco, and Twitter: @subcultureinco1.
Our episodes are written and produced by Tamice Namae Speaks LLC.
Don’t miss out on what Tamice has planned next! Follow her on Instagram and Twitter, or subscribe to her Patreon page.
What's up y'all? Welcome to this episode of Life After 11. I wanted to pop in on the front end and let you know that this is a different kind of episode. So I interviewed my Uncle, demi, which is my grandmother. Leah, the one I write about in Faith Unleavened her younger baby brother and I just wanted to know about our history and our story, and so I interviewed him for the season before I decided that Life After 11 was coming to an end him for the season before I decided that Life After 11 was coming to an end. And so we're going to interview him because I think it's important for you all to get to know me as I begin to try to defend and explain my doctoral dissertation in season four. Don't worry, it won't be boring and nerdy, it'll be fun, but it will all be around the epistemological frameworks I'm working on to defend in my doctorate. So thank y'all for listening.
Speaker 1:If you really really are sad that I'm not doing a podcast anymore, you can catch me either on the one I do with Ellison on the Patreon. That one's called Non-Binary Love in Black and White, and it's really like really raw but really real, and I'll be on Deep Resonance with Misha Vanesson over at jointheresonancecom. So that's where I'll be in these podcast streets after the end of season four. But I wanted to tell you what to expect in this episode. Uncle Demi's older, has a little bit of hard time remembering and there were some sound issues, but I did the best I could to jump in and try to orient you to what's going on. So welcome to another episode of Life After 11. Let's get it. Hello, hi, uncle Demi, it's Tamice. How are you? Oh, okay, can you hear me okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just woke up, Just came downstairs.
Speaker 1:Okay. Did you want me to call you later on, or are you okay to still talk Today's Monday? This is the voice of my great uncle, Coleman Goldsboro. He was my grandmother's baby brother and the last born of my great grandparents, George and Ida Goldsboro.
Speaker 2:You pulled a good time.
Speaker 1:Oh good, I'm glad and I'm not going to keep you super long because I don't want to hold up your day, I'm just I'm doing a podcast long because I don't want to hold up your day, I'm just I'm doing a podcast, and this year, because it was my 40th birthday, this year I'm interviewing people who have had a significant impact on my life, and so obviously my mom is one of those people, and so I would love to just talk to you about her and about the family and anything that you know, because I know that you've her and about the family and anything that you know, because I know that you've been the one keeping, kind of keeping track of the family tree and stuff like that. So I wanted to see if you'd be open to helping me answer some questions about my mom.
Speaker 2:OK, let me. I'm sitting at the computer.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Let me open the family tree in case I have to go there to answer some of your questions. Let's see. Do you want to start with your question?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah. So I was wondering if you could just tell me the story of how we arrived in Easton, how our family came to be there.
Speaker 2:Okay, my father was born here in Talbot County.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's what I could find out about Talbot County, maryland. It's one of the oldest centers of European settlement in the New World and the first boat arrived there in the 1630s. They began to establish tobacco plantations along the shores of the rivers there, and by 1662, the settlers had basically created Talbot County. They did some playing around with the borders in the area all through the 1800s, but for about a century they used tobacco as money and traded for English manufactured goods and, you know, enslaved Africans.
Speaker 2:These parents were already living there. My mother was born in Worcester County, Maryland, a town known as Pocomoke.
Speaker 1:Okay, Pocomoke, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:My father was a minister in Pocomoke. Yeah, okay, Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay. And why did they end up moving in Pocomoke?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:And why did they end up moving to Pocomoke? Well, the message made me we used to get transferred a lot. Okay. My mother met my father when my grandfather, my mother's father was a pastor in a town here in Talbot County called Newtown.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that's where my mother and father met.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Okay, gotcha Okay, wow. So that's George Goldsboro. And then great grandma's name was Ida Jane Heyman, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she had three names Sarah.
Speaker 3:Ida.
Speaker 1:Jane. And why did she have three names? Was that customary back then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because your grandmother, naomi, had three names Leah, naomi, omega.
Speaker 1:Goldsboro, and then Hasty, and then Hasty, and my mom is your older sister. You're the baby of the family, right? Uh, yeah, and what was it like? What was it like growing up there?
Speaker 2:well, I had another brother who was younger than me, but um I somebody called was younger than me, oh, but I don't know if you call it stillborn or not, but he never came home from the hospital.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:That's why your mother's obituary, your grandmother's obituary.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, Okay, and so I think I have a question about this.
Speaker 2:So I think I remember some of the names, but my mom was the only girl right. You know there was another daughter.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I went. Let me go to family first and death. I'll tell you when she died, your when she died. Okay, but they were two that never went to school. They died before they went to school.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay. In addition to the stillborn baby, uncle Demi goes on to tell me that there were two other children that my great lost before they went to school. One was Ida Alberta, who was born in 1929 and died in 1934 from whooping cough, and then Francis Scott was born this is the son 1919 and died in 1925 from polio. Uncle Demi goes on to name not only the full legal names of my uncles, but also their nicknames, and so, in order to protect their identities, I have removed that from this episode, but we'll jump back in.
Speaker 2:A nickname your grandmother named.
Speaker 1:Nip, nip, okay.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I remember hearing that because my mom would always refer to her siblings by their nickname, so it's helpful for me to see who is who. So who came after that? So that's what 13?, 11?, 13?, 11?.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, what were they like as parents.
Speaker 2:As parents. Mm-hmm. Well, my father was very strict and my mother was um.
Speaker 1:She could tell you that everything was turned around so it's a little hard to hear him in this part, but essentially he's telling me about my great-grandmother's involvement in the Methodist church. She basically had every title you could possibly have, so it's kind of cool to know that I come from a long line of people who really love God. It's impossible.
Speaker 2:Because my two oldest brothers were born in Newtown. My mother decided she was going to move to Easton where they could walk to school, to Eastern, where they could walk to school to make sure that all of her children got an education.
Speaker 1:Wow, so she moved, just so y'all could walk to school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because where they lived then with the two oldest kids it was the oneroom schoolhouse.
Speaker 1:So they lived in a one-room schoolhouse before they moved to Newton. Yeah, oh, wow, Okay, Okay. And so was great-grandma. Was she funny? Like Sarah, Ida, Jane, was she funny? Did she like to laugh? What did she like to do? His answer was that my great grandmother worked. When I asked what she did for fun, he said she went to work in church and that was her life. But not only that. She taught her kids how to do the same type of work and in that way I really do think she was trying to set them up for success and financial stability, sort of open doors for them that were not open for her. So shout out to my great grandmother.
Speaker 2:I started cooking and ironing and cleaning and she taught all of her students to iron.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:It would have been a lot of work. She would have ironed.
Speaker 1:She made sure all of them knew how all of us knew how to iron so, in faith unleavened, I tell the story about barack obama's election and the phone call I have with my grandmother. This part of the episode goes in to the story I tell in that chapter. The chapter is called missouri compromise because I do remember my mom telling a story about great grandma pulling a white sheet out. Do you remember this story where it was a it was a KKK hood and she had to leave. Do you remember that story? Oh yeah, can you tell me that story?
Speaker 2:family here in Easton and she was doing the laundry and a man uniform as one of the pieces in the laundry, and that piece didn't realize what it was. She put the iron down and walked out of the house and the job. Wow.
Speaker 1:And what did George say?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I guess he agreed with it, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really I love that story. I tell, tell the story. I tell that story in particular like in the book I wrote when I'm talking about my mom in there. So like just talking a little bit more about my mom in particular, because I know that was your older sister and y'all were pretty close right yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and. And so what was she passionate about? What was she like when she was, like you know, in her 20s?
Speaker 2:Well, she was cool and schoolwork.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Really passionate and she took care of my mother and involvement with church. She did all the business, youth and all the kids.
Speaker 1:I've been finding out so much more about my grandmother since she's passed on and I've been talking to her a lot more since she's passed on.
Speaker 1:But one of the things I found out about her from the funeral was that she had started a school and had students that were coming to the school and the mayor reached out because of the work that she was doing was kind of grabbing attention of the people in Baltimore. The mayor comes to visit and says you know, what do you need? If you could have anything, what do you need? And my grandmother asked for laundry machines and dryers because she wanted the kids to have confidence because their clothes were clean. And when I heard that story, I broke down because I realized that this impulse that is in me to create something where there isn't something, and that it was for the kids that she did it reminds me of the way that I started subculture and how it was important for me to make sure they had what they needed to have confidence in school, and so it just feels really precious to me to know that I have that in common with my grandmother and that's probably where it came from.
Speaker 2:When she was a teenager, in high school, and there was a conference in Cleveland Ohio.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:She represented our church at that conference as a youth fellowship and I remember her going to Ohio for that conference.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's incredible. And so when she was passionate about, you know, education I know that because you know she used to always make sure that we were making sure we did our homework and reading and stuff like that but she also told me this story about desegregating the ice cream shop. Do you remember that? Yeah, what is that story?
Speaker 2:I used to come home for what was known as Freedom Ride in those days, to be segregated to restaurants in here in Easton, and also I used to come down here to Cambridge I think I was living in New Jersey at the time to march in Freedom Ride to desegregate the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:She had always told me that when I asked her about that, she just very simply said, well, that Ida Jane liked french vanilla ice cream. So that's why she did the sit-in at the ice cream shop, because her mom liked french vanilla ice cream, and I just always thought that was such an interesting way to frame that. Do you so when you were doing the freedom rides and stuff like that, did you see any change? Like what, what was that time like for you and how old were you?
Speaker 2:I guess I was in my 20s, okay, but I remember that there was one time and I guess that was the. I remember one time that Naomi and I both were here. At this time she came from Baltimore for the Freedom Ride and I guess that's the ice cream story. One time, because I remember that my father went uptown to the courthouse or to the jail because he heard that some of the Freedom Riders had been arrested.
Speaker 2:He went to see if his daughter was one of them. He was seen, but he was not one of the ones who was arrested.
Speaker 1:How would he have reacted if she had been arrested? Do you think he would have been proud of her, or just how do you think he would have reacted to that?
Speaker 2:Well, he knew all the powers and shakers in the county government, so that probably just wouldn't have been me Wow.
Speaker 1:Wow, and so it didn't put his standing in jeopardy, that my mom was doing the sit ins and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:It didn't do what.
Speaker 1:It didn't put his his standing like in the community and stuff that didn't affect his standing that my mom was participating in civil rights. No, oh, wow, that's so interesting. So Allison and I decided that getting a copy of family tree was not sufficient, so this summer we're gonna go visit uncle deemee and hear these stories in person and possibly get some video. I'm learning so much about who I am by hearing these stories and I think, as I live and move and put content out into the world, it's important for people to know me, and me comes with all of this. So thank you for holding the stories of my family and for listening. These are sacred stories.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I only have three more questions for you, because I know I know what I miss most about my mom is just her stories and her laugh and the way, the way that she responded when food was really good, especially if it was seafood. I miss so many things about her but I want to know, kind of, what you miss about her. And then my second question is how would you describe her in three words? And the last question is if, if she, if you were her, or think about what she would say to this question, which is, um, if there were any words to live by, what would they be? So what would my mom say? Some words to live by would be words to live by would be.
Speaker 2:Let me see. Uh-huh, if we can pick up on that, mm-hmm, I would like to go to her and ask her things that I can't quite remember, or I would like to know more about. You know she was young because she was three years older.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the big sister. Yeah, yeah, so the big sister, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, three words.
Speaker 3:She was intelligent yeah, that's for sure, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think yeah, it's no worries if you don't. The last question was if you, if my mom, could give the younger generation some words to live, by, what would they be? What do you think she would say?
Speaker 2:study hard study.
Speaker 3:Study, hard Study.
Speaker 1:And achieve academically. That's right and I feel like she kind of she put a love for learning for me. She put a love of learning in me and I'll never forget that and I'm so thankful I got the opportunity to talk to you a little bit about it and I can't wait to get the the tree from you, um, because I just I feel like I'm in a place right now where I'm wanting to connect to my roots and know my story. Do you by chance know what tribe we came from? Did you ever go that far back?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm looking at a picture here on the wall and I think it's my great grandmother who was part Indian, and most of those in this part of Maryland were Nanticoke, so that's probably Nanticoke Nanny coat. Okay, so that's my father's nanny coat. Wow, but I know that my father was always proud that his grandmother was part Native American.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, wow. And do you know what side? The Haman, where the Haman side came from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was my mother's side of the family. You know, the first person in our family that we had records of was someone new with the name Mo Hold on.
Speaker 1:M-O.
Speaker 2:Yes, mo, mo did not have a last name. Okay, because Mo didn't get last name until after the Emancipation Proclamation. Okay, now it's the B's that. Hey, you people gotta get some surname.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, because of census.
Speaker 2:I guess they just need to know who these people were, and most of the people, both the blacks, used the last names of the families that owned them Right, but others did not.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:But others did not. First person in the Heyman family history. Their name was Hill, but he changed his name to Heyman.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, do you know why? Are there any records as to why?
Speaker 2:No, Because his name was Hill and he changed it to Heyman.
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:So don't you think Jeffrey is a Heyman Mm-hmm? But I remember when I was younger I knew Jeffrey well I guess most of his family, that's my mother if they were related and he knew Jeffrey's grandfather. And even though they were from the Pennsylvania area, they were not Haymans who were related to her family.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay. So so Hayman is a name that they just made up, or that whoever the first Hayman who changed their name from Hill to Haman? Was that a made-up name? That wasn't the master's name.
Speaker 2:For our family. Yes, Haman was just the name that was chosen.
Speaker 1:Wow. So they did not take the name of the masters, they created their own last name.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, that's incredible. Wow. And what do you know about Mo?
Speaker 2:You know, we had a family reunion. Some of the people they didn't know their names 90. We didn't know Really and the good man said he came from Uganda to New Orleans as a slave.
Speaker 1:So he was a slave in New Orleans, okay.
Speaker 2:In the Gold Falls. That was the name. Okay, wow.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, so they chose. So you're saying they chose the name Goldsboro because there were prominent white families with that last name, but they weren't owned by somebody named Goldsboro. Oh, my goodness, it is so awesome. That's just amazing. Wow, wow, that's just amazing, wow, wow. This has been so enlightening. I can't wait to get the stuff from you. So Mo came from Uganda through from Uganda to Louisiana, and then the other side was Native Americans wow, manicote Native, americans. Wow, this has been so awesome. Thank you so much, uncle D and me.
Speaker 3:I really appreciate this. Thank you for listening To pick your money in your heart is donate to Subquatcher Inc and clear the path for black students today.